Investment
Tasting Reality
- permabear
- pink101
- Normxxx
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- pink101
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» permabear - Capitalism's Strategy
In response to Capitalism's Strategy posted by Normxxx:I'm with Norm on the China and Russia story. People in both of these countries are persecuted and jailed for doing just what we are doing here- saying what they think. There is no defense in the 21st century for people not being able to criticize their government or speaking their minds. As critical as I am of the U.S. these days, and especially at incompetent republican leadership, I still am very thankful that I have been so fortunate as to have been raised in a country that has given me a comfortable life to this point and freedom.
-- posted by permabear
» pink101 - A Terrible Thing In Man
In response to Capitalism's Strategy posted by Normxxx:.
I don't doubt your response one bit.
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I'm sure the Communist hogs of the Chinese government are as greedy as those in any other society. I do not hold up those systems above ours in any way whatsoever. Our American society is the best system ever devised by human beings. I have no doubts regarding our Constitutional system at all. In fact, any argument I might have favors our system. I am a Red, White, and Blue Yankee Patriot.
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The danger I am pointing at has to do with the greed of those people who gain control of economy.
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I didn't hold the Chinese People's Republic up as a shining example of anything--only to point out that government has a legitimate role as investor. The same is true in reverse when we take taxation into consideration. Big business in rampant capitalism has no compunctions against taxing the consumer. And, its captains can surely come up with every excuse to get away with its excesses. Our First Amendment establishes our right of association beyond any shadow of a doubt. We should use extreme caution during these times when the multinationals are making their major moves. They have deployed their lobby groups as the foot soldiers in corralling our government to buttress their hunger for profit. We are fighting their wars of aggression.
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Greed is a terrible thing in man.
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Why shouldn't our government act on behalf ofALL the People rather than to protect only the few who have some level of wealth? Should a person's station of birth be held against them?
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-- posted by pink101
» Normxxx - A Terrible Thing In Man
In response to A Terrible Thing In Man posted by pink101:- Our American society is the best system ever devised by human beings
Well, I am not sure I would go so far as that, but it's one of the best in the world today. Depending on your preferences and other things, there are also such other capitalistic democracies as the UK, Australia, Canada, Switzerland (the last only for citizens, like ancient Greece)- and it is no accident that most are English speaking and can trace their roots back to the Magna Carta.
However, Plato believed in a republic, and the US was a republic for about the first third of its existance, and I am not sure that we couldn't fashion a 'self-selecting' republic that might be better than our current democracy- more or less doing a better job along the lines you suggest. The selection process would have to be something like that of a Catholic monastic order- chastity NOT required, but poverty and dedication to do only good works- still, we all know how THAT turned out, don't we?
- Why shouldn't our government act on behalf ofALL the People rather than to protect only the few who have some level of wealth? Should a person's station of birth be held against them?
Now in that, the US has no peer, except possibly Australia or Canada. Certainly not the UK, where your status in life is generally determined by your birth (and the standing of your parents, a peerage entitling one to extra status) and/or educational attainments and/or wealth (and, with enough money, you can purchase a peerage, there are many good ones for sale by 'impoverished' peers). Read George B. Shaw's "Pygmallion"- gets the point across much better than "My Fair Lady."
Unfortunately, 1) you can't legislate morality, though it's been tried many, many times and ways and 2) anytime you pass a law restricting anyone's privileges, it usually is applied only to those for whom it was NOT intended; the 'guilty' usually are smart enough or rich enough to avoid any such encumbrances.
-- posted by Normxxx
» Normxxx - A Terrible Thing In Man
In response to A Terrible Thing In Man posted by pink101:
You might also enjoy reading Orwell's "Animal Farm", which is a parody of the Soviet Union of the 1940s.
-- posted by Normxxx
» pink101 - The Republic
In response to A Terrible Thing In Man posted by Normxxx:.
"And to the Republic for which it stands...." Pledge of Allegiance
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Right!
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"A Republic if you can keep it...." Benj Franklin
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I don't know much about the government in those other countries. I've often been to Canada as I live in Michigan and have spent some time in Vermont both of which are next door neighbors to our cousins in Canada. What I've seen I like. It was fun to be in Montreal where my wife asked a shop keeper if she spoke English and she said, "Only if I have to." Ha ha.
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One of my grandfather's brother's went to the Land of Oz in the late nineteenth century to seek his fortune and was never heard of again. I have ancestral roots in Switzerland that go back to the seventeenth century. I wrote letters to a girl in London during WWII when I was in junior high school--it was a "Good Neighbor Policy" of some sort pushed by the schools. That's all I know about those places.
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I remember when Animal Farm first came out. I was a boy and I read it and saw the animated movie. I know about Pygmalion and, maybe, I'll have to get a copy and read it.
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I appreciate all the comments being made in this thread. I hope there are more.
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-- posted by pink101
» Normxxx - The Republic
In response to The Republic posted by pink101:- It was fun to be in Montreal where my wife asked a shop keeper if she spoke English and she said, "Only if I have to." Ha ha.
She wasn't kidding! French Canadians speak English only to Americans. They speak English to English Canadians only under duress (they expect the English Canadians to be bilingual as they are; it's a matter of pride).
- I have ancestral roots in Switzerland that go back to the seventeenth century.
Yes; the democracy in Switzerland is one of the world's oldest. It is based on the self-governing cantons, some of which have a history of independence and confederacy that goes back more than 700 years, arguably putting them among the world's oldest surviving republics. Still, Switzerland (now a democracy, as we are) is very insular and very particular about granting permanent residence, much less citizenship. And, if you are not a citizen, you are definitely second-class. Definitely off-putting if you are from the US and don't wish to live like hermits (e.g., Charlie Chaplin and his wife Oona O'Neill).
The UK or Ireland is much better; but both are very status conscious, and not just about wealth, so it might be difficult to live there, depending on the circles you took part in.
The Aussies are more like Americans; they are just as status conscious as we are (isn't all of mankind?), but you assume the status' of the circles you take part in (pretty much as in the US). Of course, as in most countries, skin color and sex also count for a lot, and sometimes religion. (And a great way to pick up 'mates' is by partaking or following some punishing sport!)
-- posted by Normxxx
» Normxxx - The Republic
In response to The Republic posted by pink101:- I live in Michigan and have spent some time in Vermont both of which are next door neighbors to our cousins in Canada. What I've seen I like.
If you come frome the American heartland and not one of the bigger cities, you would particulary like Canada better than either US coast- for one thing, the pace of life and the things considered important in life are more similar.
-- posted by Normxxx
» pink101 - Canada
In response to The Republic posted by Normxxx:.
I think you are correct on the idea that rural Midwestern America and rural Ontario are much alike. Hard to differentiate, actually.
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My first trip to Canada was in the late 1930s--to Windsor. It was almost exactly like Detroit. I lived in Saginaw.
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My last trip was to Montreal just a few years ago. I liked it.
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I remember driving though Canada on my way back from Vermont one year and stopping in a Dunkin Donuts shop where I saw a couple of women dressed like men smoking those skinny cigars (cigarillos?). Was the town, London? Heh heh heh.
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-- posted by pink101
» Normxxx - A Terrible Thing In Man
Safety Subverted In China's Mines:
Corruption Comes to the Surface [only] After Disaster That Halted Production [WP, 2/19/08]
China, circa 2008 = US circa 1908.
Note: the mines in the ex-Soviet bloc are only marginally safer!
-- posted by Normxxx
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