Investment
War On Terrorism
- permabear
- Fred2000
- stocktiger
- runner26
- stocktiger
- runner26
- stocktiger
- runner26
- rasputin
- rasputin
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» permabear - Give War a Chance!
In response to Give War a Chance! posted by rasputin:
And especially Israel. They hate Jews. They're taught this from day one. It's drummed into them. The Jews and the West are the reason for all of Islam's failures.
I actually agree with much of what you say. I just don't agree on the solution. I believe that as long as the Israeli Palestinian conflict remains unresolved, it gives the fanatics the excuse they need to foment their streets. If there was an actual peace treaty between Israel and the Palestinians, there would not be nearly the hatred that we currently see in the mainstream Arab street.
No doubt there are still the fanatics, jihadists if you will out there. But if there was peace between Israel and the Palestinians, moderates of both sides could be working together to defeat the fanatics. In fact I think that's what is beginning to happen right now between Israel and Fatah. Fatah now sees that the only avenue they have to maintain if not grow their power is to take the moderate path, and work with Israel in defeating Hamas and the other fanatics. This may actually be a good development.
You folks may be giving the jihadists more credit than they deserve. How many countries do the jihadists control? Try maybe one, say Iran. Every other Middle Eastern country is controlled by more secular, pro western regimes. I don't consider Syria a jihadist regime even though they side with Iran and support terrorism. Syria is a baathist regime and they have fought against the jihadists within Syria.
In every other Middle Eastern country, the jihadists have been held back. Jordan, Egypt, Qatar, even Iraq, which we so foolishly blew up. All these countries contain the jihadist threat from within through strong government control. The neocons really destroyed this control when they went into the Middle East waiving the flag of democracy. Talk about kicking our interests in the head. What we need to do is continue to support the prowestern regimes in the Middle East and encourage more capitalistic commerce and human rights for women and so on. The jihadists can be defeated if we play our cards right. The neocons have played just about every card wrong.
-- posted by permabear
» Fred2000 - Give War a Chance!
In response to Give War a Chance! posted by stocktiger:How do you propose stopping a jihad that has been building since the 1970's based on beliefs from the middle ages? When doctors and university graduates are willing to be suicide bombers I would say we are in a very UGLY world now.
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stocktiger... That's a good quesion. Consider that in the US the largest supporters of "stay the course" are extreme religious right wingers. They find Bush's unwillingness to change course to be a positive and one could speculate that it would take hell to freeze over before they will change their minds. The jihadists are similar in their convictions only more so....
-- posted by Fred2000
» stocktiger - Give War a Chance!
In response to Give War a Chance! posted by Fred2000:
You know the convervative Muslims are in DIRE fear of the Islamic Jihadist's. That's why they don't speak up, fear of beheading and family reprisals is a strong motivation to silence.
Changing course can be tricky, the other side views kindness as weakness, don't forget the lessons learned in Israel. While I am no proponent of the "nuke em' till they glow" crowd or mass bombings, I don't see how we can negogiate with a moving target.
Hopefully I am wrong about the Oil/Terrorism connection and wrong about further attacks on the West. I want to see peace in our lifetimes. I would rather lose money in Energy than see further deterioration of the world.
-- posted by stocktiger
» runner26 - Give War a Chance!
In response to Give War a Chance! posted by stocktiger:
I would like to see this country put it's money into some high gear technology development instead of wasting it big time in Iraq.
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Come on, with camera's the size of grains of sand, why are we not developing "bumblebee" flying cameras with built in stingers that could administer lethal doses. Fly these babies around Afghan/Pakistan border and drop um in the training camps. I don't think that is a far-fetched idea.
-- posted by runner26
» stocktiger - Give War a Chance!
In response to Give War a Chance! posted by runner26:
Now that's a great idea! I also liked the "gay" bomb thing the USAF was working on, make em' meek as kittens.
Perhaps a sterilization weapon to preclude fatherhood, hmmmm....
I am sure our classified weapons labs have "tools" readily available which dwarf our imaginations. That Geneva Convention thing precludes their use.
-- posted by stocktiger
» runner26 - Give War a Chance!
In response to Give War a Chance! posted by stocktiger:
You obviously don't know many gay people. I do, and that was a real waste of military money. The stereotypes are hogwash.
-- posted by runner26
» stocktiger - Give War a Chance!
In response to Give War a Chance! posted by runner26:
Perhaps I didn't explain it well. The story I heard was the chemical would make them want to have sex with any warm body around on a rampant basis. I certainly did not mean to say gay people are meek and I too have gay friends. Sorry to have offended you, it was not my intent.
-- posted by stocktiger
» runner26 - Give War a Chance!
In response to Give War a Chance! posted by stocktiger:
Apology accepted.
-- posted by runner26
» rasputin - Iran's Revolutionary Guard Designated Terrorists
-U.S. to Designate Iran's Revolutionary Guard as Terrorists
By Robin Wright
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, August 14, 2007; 9:14 PM
The United States has decided to designate Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps, the country's 125,000-strong military branch, as a "specially designated global terrorist," according to U.S. officials, a move that allows Washington to target the group's business operations and finances.
The Bush administration has chosen to move against the Revolutionary Guard Corps because of what U.S. officials describe as the group's growing involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan as well as its support for extremists throughout the Middle East, the sources said. The decision follows congressional pressure on the administration to toughen its stance against Tehran as well as U.S. frustration with the ineffectiveness of U.N. resolutions against Iran's nuclear program, officials said.
The designation of the Revolutionary Guards will be made under Executive Order 13224, which President Bush signed two weeks after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks to obstruct terrorist funding. It identifies individuals, businesses, charities and many extremist groups engaged in terrorist activities. The Revolutionary Guards would be the first national military branch included on the list, U.S. officials said -- a highly unusual move because it is part of a government, rather than a typical non-state terrorist organization.
The order allows the United States to block the assets of terrorists and to disrupt operations by foreign businesses that "provide support, services or assistance to, or otherwise associate with, terrorists."
The move reflects the escalating tensions between Washington and Tehran over issues including Iraq and Iran's nuclear ambitions. Iran has been on the State Department's list of state sponsors of terrorism since 1984, but in May the two countries began their first formal one-on-one dialogue in 28 years with a meeting of diplomats in Baghdad.
The main goal of the new designation is to clamp down on the Revolutionary Guards' vast business network, as well as on foreign companies conducting business linked to the military unit and its personnel. The administration plans to list many of the Revolutionary Guards' financial operations.
"Anyone doing business with these people will have to reevaluate their actions immediately," said a U.S. official familiar with the plan who requested anonymity because the decision has not been announced. "It increases the risks of people who have until now ignored the growing list of sanctions against the Iranians. It makes clear to everyone who the IRGC and their related businesses really are. It removes the excuses for doing business with these people."
For weeks, the Bush administration has been debating whether to target the Revolutionary Guards Corps in full, or only its Quds Force wing, which U.S. officials have linked to the growing flow of explosives, roadside bombs, rockets and other arms to Shiite militias in Iraq and the Taliban in Afghanistan. The Quds Force also lends support to Shiite allies such as Lebanon's Hezbollah and to Sunni movements such as Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
Although administration discussions remain ongoing, the initial decision is to target the entire Guards Corps, U.S. officials said. The administration has not yet decided when to announce the new measure, but officials said they would prefer to do so before the meeting of the U.N. General Assembly next month, when the United States intends to increase international pressure against Iran.
Formed after 1979 and originally tasked with protecting the world's only modern theocracy, the Revolutionary Guards took the lead in battling Iraq during the bloody Iran-Iraq war waged from 1980 to 1988. The Guards, also known as the Pasdaran, have since become an powerful political and economic force in Iran. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad rose through the ranks of the Revolutionary Guards and came to power with support from its network of veterans. Its leaders are tied to many mainstream businesses in Iran.
"They are heavily involved in everything from pharmaceuticals to telecommunications and pipelines, even the new Imam Khomeini Airport and a great deal of smuggling," said Ray Takeyh of the Council on Foreign Relations. "Many of the front companies engaged in procuring nuclear technology are owned and run by the Revolutionary Guards. They're developing along the lines of the Chinese military which is involved in many business enterprises. It's a huge business conglomeration."
The Revolutionary Guard Corps -- with its own navy, air force, ground forces and special forces units -- is a rival to Iran's conventional troops. Its naval forces abducted 15 British sailors and marines last spring, sparking an international crisis, and its special forces armed Lebanon's Hezbollah with missiles used against Israel in the 2006 war. The Guard Corps also plays a key role in Iran's military industries, including attempted acquisition of nuclear weapons and surface-to-surface missiles, according to Anthony Cordesman of the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
The United States took punitive actions against Iran after the 1979 takeover of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, including the breaking of diplomatic ties and the freezing of Iranian assets in the United States. More recently, dozens of international banks and financial institutions either reduced or eliminated their business with Iran, following a quiet campaign by the Treasury Department and State Department aimed at limiting Tehran's access to the international financial system. And over the past year, two U.N. resolutions have targeted the assets and movements of 28 individuals -- including some Revolutionary Guard members -- tied to Iran's nuclear program.
The key obstacle to stronger international pressure against Tehran has been China, which is now Iran's largest trading partner. After the Iranian government refused to comply with two U.N. Security Council resolutions dealing with its nuclear program, Beijing balked at a U.S. proposal for a third resolution that would have sanctioned the Revolutionary Guard, U.S. officials said.
China's actions reverse a cycle during which Russia was the most reluctant among the veto-wielding members of the Security Council. "China used to hide behind Russia, but Russia is now hiding behind China," said a U.S. official familiar with negotiations.
The administration's move also comes amid growing support in Congress for the Iran Counter-Proliferation Act, which was introduced in the Senate by Gordon Smith (R-Ore.), and by Rep. Tom Lantos (D-Calif.) in the House, where it already has 323 cosponsors.
The administration's move could hurt diplomatic efforts, some analysts said. "It would greatly complicate our efforts to solve the nuclear issue," said Joseph Cirincione, a nuclear proliferation expert at the Center for American Progress. "It would tie an end to Iran's nuclear program to an end to its support of allies in Hezbollah and Hamas. The only way you could get a nuclear deal is as part of a grand bargain, which at this point is completely out of reach."
Such sanctions can only work alongside diplomatic efforts, Cirincione added. "Sanctions can serve as a prod but they have very rarely forced a country to capitulate or collapse," he said. "All of us want to back Iran into a corner but we want to give them a way out, too. [The designation] will convince many in Iran's elite that there's no point in talking with us and that the only thing that will satisfy us is regime change."
Researcher Madonna Lebling contributed to this report.
-- posted by rasputin
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